Comments on: How I learned to appreciate crappy hip hop http://www.daveshap.com/how-i-learned-to-appreciate-crappy-hip-hop/ I put in work, and watch my status escalate. Sat, 12 Sep 2009 10:13:54 +0000 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.9.1 hourly 1 By: 5th Sequence http://www.daveshap.com/how-i-learned-to-appreciate-crappy-hip-hop/comment-page-1/#comment-503 5th Sequence Mon, 23 Feb 2009 08:42:45 +0000 http://www.daveshap.com/how-i-learned-to-love-crappy-hip-hop/#comment-503 Everyone is bringing great points to the table. The artist that "sells out" for a wider audience reach will gain more fans at the sacrifice of the underground/deeper content fans. Many of you agree that this "dumbing down" is a necessity to tap into what is generally accepted as the hip hop mainstream. But what if "hip hop mainstream" isn't you're personally definition of hip hop? I used to breakdance and write graff in high school with my little hip hop crew. We loved it. We got amped off the golden era hip hop, and we appreciate that flavor of music much more than what is coming out today. It's not that we are stuck in the past, but the music that was made back than brought more to the table and was much more captivating to listen to. Myself and my old hip hop crew are not alone. There is a huge market for people like us. Imagine all the bboys and bgirls out there, dj's, graffiti writers and cats who still dig that golden era sound. Then you have the hip hop intellects who aren't about to get caught listening to some ringtone candy BS you know? This market isn't lost, it's just been in the background (or underground if you will) because mainstream trends are what are financially backed by record labels and promoted via BET, MTV, clear channel. they all are in the business of making money, which means investing in the next big thing and that certainly means having the widest possible audience reach. Underground music is a niche market now. It may be a smaller audience but I would bet the house that if your music is good enough to win the respect of bboys, dj's, hip hop intellects etc, you will have a fan for life. No youtube million hits flavor-of-the-week trends, but acceptance that will last as long as you hold it down for your fans. Perfect example of this, my friends and I used to be huge fans of common. Resurrection is my favorite album of his. His following releases were good up until a point where his style began to change. He gained more fans and presumably more success, at the sacrifice of losing me and probably thousands of others as dedicated fans. In terms of financial success, this was a great move for common. In terms of letting down his dedicated audience base, well, I don't even keep track or care about what he's doing these days. My .02 Great discussion, Peace!! Everyone is bringing great points to the table.

The artist that “sells out” for a wider audience reach will gain more fans at the sacrifice of the underground/deeper content fans. Many of you agree that this “dumbing down” is a necessity to tap into what is generally accepted as the hip hop mainstream.

But what if “hip hop mainstream” isn’t you’re personally definition of hip hop? I used to breakdance and write graff in high school with my little hip hop crew. We loved it. We got amped off the golden era hip hop, and we appreciate that flavor of music much more than what is coming out today. It’s not that we are stuck in the past, but the music that was made back than brought more to the table and was much more captivating to listen to.

Myself and my old hip hop crew are not alone. There is a huge market for people like us. Imagine all the bboys and bgirls out there, dj’s, graffiti writers and cats who still dig that golden era sound. Then you have the hip hop intellects who aren’t about to get caught listening to some ringtone candy BS you know? This market isn’t lost, it’s just been in the background (or underground if you will) because mainstream trends are what are financially backed by record labels and promoted via BET, MTV, clear channel. they all are in the business of making money, which means investing in the next big thing and that certainly means having the widest possible audience reach.

Underground music is a niche market now. It may be a smaller audience but I would bet the house that if your music is good enough to win the respect of bboys, dj’s, hip hop intellects etc, you will have a fan for life. No youtube million hits flavor-of-the-week trends, but acceptance that will last as long as you hold it down for your fans.

Perfect example of this, my friends and I used to be huge fans of common. Resurrection is my favorite album of his. His following releases were good up until a point where his style began to change. He gained more fans and presumably more success, at the sacrifice of losing me and probably thousands of others as dedicated fans. In terms of financial success, this was a great move for common. In terms of letting down his dedicated audience base, well, I don’t even keep track or care about what he’s doing these days.

My .02

Great discussion,

Peace!!

]]> By: Miles http://www.daveshap.com/how-i-learned-to-appreciate-crappy-hip-hop/comment-page-1/#comment-424 Miles Tue, 02 Dec 2008 23:47:37 +0000 http://www.daveshap.com/how-i-learned-to-love-crappy-hip-hop/#comment-424 I disagree, music is an art-form. yes they need to make a living but by selling out (which they are in fact doing) they are making an absurd surplus of loot that they don't need. This goes against the foundation of hip-hop as a rebellious voice against the corporate fat cats and corrupt politicians. Hip-hop gave the streets a voice, the realness of tupac and biggies lyrics is what set them apart. They could flow with the best, but the paint the beautiful struggle better than anyone ever had. If rappers are truly talented and still want to sell platinum be real, this fake shit makes me sick, hip-hop is headed for the gutters. Plus I need some new stuff to listen to because I'm running low on quality pre-weezy music. I disagree, music is an art-form. yes they need to make a living but by selling out (which they are in fact doing) they are making an absurd surplus of loot that they don’t need. This goes against the foundation of hip-hop as a rebellious voice against the corporate fat cats and corrupt politicians. Hip-hop gave the streets a voice, the realness of tupac and biggies lyrics is what set them apart. They could flow with the best, but the paint the beautiful struggle better than anyone ever had. If rappers are truly talented and still want to sell platinum be real, this fake shit makes me sick, hip-hop is headed for the gutters. Plus I need some new stuff to listen to because I’m running low on quality pre-weezy music.

]]> By: Paul http://www.daveshap.com/how-i-learned-to-appreciate-crappy-hip-hop/comment-page-1/#comment-407 Paul Fri, 28 Nov 2008 13:57:33 +0000 http://www.daveshap.com/how-i-learned-to-love-crappy-hip-hop/#comment-407 You've had a breakthrough in accepting the necessity of selling yourself and yet you're only willing to accept it in the context of 'better rap' that these artists seem capable of. You accept that an artist needs to 'sell himself', but what if he chooses to sell himself to the biggest audience possible? What's wrong with that exactly? Why the hell don't we give MORE respect to those artists? It's not easy to sell yourself, and even the best salesman can't sell a turd if it smells too bad. The 'crappy' rap music that you don't respect? That IS the good stuff from those artists. They took pains to balance the needs of salesmanship against their own creative needs and the compromise is greater than the sum of it's parts. I'm willing to grant that sometimes the sales job is more polished than the music itself, but I reject the premise that selling yourself is 'bad'. Therefore when you state 'Unfortunately, there is no correlation between quality of music and sales' I think you're completely underestimating the role of salesmanship. Quality music is (at least in part) music that is well sold. You’ve had a breakthrough in accepting the necessity of selling yourself and yet you’re only willing to accept it in the context of ‘better rap’ that these artists seem capable of.

You accept that an artist needs to ’sell himself’, but what if he chooses to sell himself to the biggest audience possible? What’s wrong with that exactly? Why the hell don’t we give MORE respect to those artists?

It’s not easy to sell yourself, and even the best salesman can’t sell a turd if it smells too bad.

The ‘crappy’ rap music that you don’t respect?
That IS the good stuff from those artists. They took pains to balance the needs of salesmanship against their own creative needs and the compromise is greater than the sum of it’s parts.

I’m willing to grant that sometimes the sales job is more polished than the music itself, but I reject the premise that selling yourself is ‘bad’.

Therefore when you state ‘Unfortunately, there is no correlation between quality of music and sales’ I think you’re completely underestimating the role of salesmanship.

Quality music is (at least in part) music that is well sold.

]]> By: Norman http://www.daveshap.com/how-i-learned-to-appreciate-crappy-hip-hop/comment-page-1/#comment-163 Norman Wed, 28 May 2008 06:11:54 +0000 http://www.daveshap.com/how-i-learned-to-love-crappy-hip-hop/#comment-163 Lets get this straight music is done as pastime. It is something people do on their leisure time. i hate when people mix business with music. Music should have nothing to do with money at all. When money and profit get involved, the music somehow turns sour. I hate when people try to make money over music. I respect people in the underground because they often leave out the money aspect. These are the artist who can careless about the money and only love making music. These are the people who will do it for free. They make music because it is fun. Money has no influence on their music. So when you compare the mainstream with the the underground, the underground is more filling. You actually get a positive message. When people do something they love, not only do they devote themselves more the the other guy, but they tend to do better. People who love what they do do a better job. so fuck the radio, fuck the major labels and fuck greed! "FS" Lets get this straight music is done as pastime. It is something people do on their leisure time. i hate when people mix business with music. Music should have nothing to do with money at all. When money and profit get involved, the music somehow turns sour. I hate when people try to make money over music. I respect people in the underground because they often leave out the money aspect. These are the artist who can careless about the money and only love making music. These are the people who will do it for free. They make music because it is fun. Money has no influence on their music. So when you compare the mainstream with the the underground, the underground is more filling. You actually get a positive message. When people do something they love, not only do they devote themselves more the the other guy, but they tend to do better. People who love what they do do a better job.

so fuck the radio, fuck the major labels and fuck greed!

“FS”

]]> By: Silvano http://www.daveshap.com/how-i-learned-to-appreciate-crappy-hip-hop/comment-page-1/#comment-110 Silvano Tue, 18 Mar 2008 07:42:02 +0000 http://www.daveshap.com/how-i-learned-to-love-crappy-hip-hop/#comment-110 I agree with you to a point, but mixtapes used to be the saving grace. Where artists could show off thier skills, build hype for their upcoming albums, and 'keep it real'. Even mixtapes have been clouded with ringtone rap and hip pop lately though. Suprising enough, G units new "elephant in the sand" is probably one of the better ones I've heard recently. Although most artists that make it in the industry, have to adapt and go for radio play on certain singles, I think a huge problem they face, is once they blow up, they lose touch with thier material, where they came from, and what made them. Their lyrics run out of 'street cred', and all they seem to have left to rap about is money, gold diggers, and drugs. I don't think thier purposely selling out, but their success is also their failure to a point. Take Twista for example. Twista been rapping for years, but until recently, he was some what of a Chicago underground phenomenon. You could always catch him in the grimiest of hoods in Chicago, the clubs, the record and clothing shops. Now that he blew up, he 'aint in the streets' no more. And it shows in his music. Great post though man, I'll stick around and subscribe to your rss feed, as I'm fairly new to the web dev. world, and could surely use some of your advice. Feel free to check out my personal blog, @ http://silvanov.com or submit this article to 'the digg of the rap world', linked in my name. Silvano I agree with you to a point, but mixtapes used to be the saving grace. Where artists could show off thier skills, build hype for their upcoming albums, and ‘keep it real’. Even mixtapes have been clouded with ringtone rap and hip pop lately though. Suprising enough, G units new “elephant in the sand” is probably one of the better ones I’ve heard recently. Although most artists that make it in the industry, have to adapt and go for radio play on certain singles, I think a huge problem they face, is once they blow up, they lose touch with thier material, where they came from, and what made them. Their lyrics run out of ’street cred’, and all they seem to have left to rap about is money, gold diggers, and drugs. I don’t think thier purposely selling out, but their success is also their failure to a point. Take Twista for example. Twista been rapping for years, but until recently, he was some what of a Chicago underground phenomenon. You could always catch him in the grimiest of hoods in Chicago, the clubs, the record and clothing shops. Now that he blew up, he ‘aint in the streets’ no more. And it shows in his music.

Great post though man, I’ll stick around and subscribe to your rss feed, as I’m fairly new to the web dev. world, and could surely use some of your advice. Feel free to check out my personal blog, @ http://silvanov.com or submit this article to ‘the digg of the rap world’, linked in my name.

Silvano

]]> By: ehsaan mesghali http://www.daveshap.com/how-i-learned-to-appreciate-crappy-hip-hop/comment-page-1/#comment-109 ehsaan mesghali Tue, 04 Mar 2008 18:05:03 +0000 http://www.daveshap.com/how-i-learned-to-love-crappy-hip-hop/#comment-109 hi there, i agree with you fully. juelz santana (not sure of spelling) is a great example, he has some sick flows form his earlier days but all you hear him say in the radio these days is i have b's, i have hoe's i have gwaps and chains and cars. he has to feed the beast that has become hip hop to put food on his table, its a sad reality. what you failed to mention is that some artists out there are staying true to the game and continue to flow truth...a good example is Lupe Fiasco (not surprisingly sponsored by Jay-Z). he even calls out this phenomena in his song '"dumb it down" in the album "The Cool" http://youtube.com/watch?v=q1Et1siZhTk anyways, great post, good insight. ehsaan m. hi there,

i agree with you fully.

juelz santana (not sure of spelling) is a great example, he has some sick flows form his earlier days but all you hear him say in the radio these days is i have b’s, i have hoe’s i have gwaps and chains and cars.

he has to feed the beast that has become hip hop to put food on his table, its a sad reality.

what you failed to mention is that some artists out there are staying true to the game and continue to flow truth…a good example is Lupe Fiasco (not surprisingly sponsored by Jay-Z).

he even calls out this phenomena in his song ‘”dumb it down” in the album “The Cool”

http://youtube.com/watch?v=q1Et1siZhTk

anyways, great post, good insight.

ehsaan m.

]]> By: Matt Bostelaar http://www.daveshap.com/how-i-learned-to-appreciate-crappy-hip-hop/comment-page-1/#comment-108 Matt Bostelaar Tue, 04 Mar 2008 16:37:53 +0000 http://www.daveshap.com/how-i-learned-to-love-crappy-hip-hop/#comment-108 I know this is a pretty old entry, but I'm just going to point out Dumb It Down by Lupe Fiasco, it's the anti-mindset of dumbing down your rhymes for money. Lupe realizes that he could just rap about bitches and bling, but he writes songs about skateboarding and a paralleling the ghetto with a giant robot. His whole album "The Cool" has an anti-rap sort of feel. I know this is a pretty old entry, but I’m just going to point out Dumb It Down by Lupe Fiasco, it’s the anti-mindset of dumbing down your rhymes for money. Lupe realizes that he could just rap about bitches and bling, but he writes songs about skateboarding and a paralleling the ghetto with a giant robot.

His whole album “The Cool” has an anti-rap sort of feel.

]]> By: TCP http://www.daveshap.com/how-i-learned-to-appreciate-crappy-hip-hop/comment-page-1/#comment-107 TCP Tue, 04 Mar 2008 16:06:50 +0000 http://www.daveshap.com/how-i-learned-to-love-crappy-hip-hop/#comment-107 Great article. Music is changing so rapidly and there is so much corporate corruption involved still. As an indie label from Miami we feel that listening to the streets is no longer a viable source of feedback. The 'streets' are full of this 'dumbed down' teen and pre-teen culture that have no idea what is good music. The messages they absorb are "Money is more important than anything else in life" and "Keep shaking your ass and someone will notice you". So if you portray these messages even in a simple way, you will have credibility at the least. There are new artists from a slightly older generation that see this and have adopted a style that might resolve this "culture crisis". Check out totalcontrolproductions.com for more. Great article. Music is changing so rapidly and there is so much corporate corruption involved still. As an indie label from Miami we feel that listening to the streets is no longer a viable source of feedback. The ’streets’ are full of this ‘dumbed down’ teen and pre-teen culture that have no idea what is good music. The messages they absorb are “Money is more important than anything else in life” and “Keep shaking your ass and someone will notice you”. So if you portray these messages even in a simple way, you will have credibility at the least. There are new artists from a slightly older generation that see this and have adopted a style that might resolve this “culture crisis”.
Check out totalcontrolproductions.com for more.

]]> By: Oliver Hope http://www.daveshap.com/how-i-learned-to-appreciate-crappy-hip-hop/comment-page-1/#comment-105 Oliver Hope Mon, 03 Mar 2008 06:44:06 +0000 http://www.daveshap.com/how-i-learned-to-love-crappy-hip-hop/#comment-105 Also just noticed you are from Arizona. So is the beginning of "Post Rap". You should look around your town. Also just noticed you are from Arizona. So is the beginning of “Post Rap”. You should look around your town.

]]> By: Oliver Hope http://www.daveshap.com/how-i-learned-to-appreciate-crappy-hip-hop/comment-page-1/#comment-104 Oliver Hope Mon, 03 Mar 2008 06:42:25 +0000 http://www.daveshap.com/how-i-learned-to-love-crappy-hip-hop/#comment-104 There is good hip hop out there, and people not willing to sell out. Problem is they are not wanted by the music business for just that reason. http://records.gahed.com yap. - O.H. ! There is good hip hop out there, and people not willing to sell out. Problem is they are not wanted by the music business for just that reason.

http://records.gahed.com

yap.

- O.H. !

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